podcast Peter Attia 2022-12-12 topics

#234 ‒ Chris Hemsworth on Limitless, longevity, and happiness

Audio

Show notes

Chris Hemsworth, best known for his role as Thor in the Marvel movies, joins Peter to discuss his recent work in the docuseries called Limitless . In the docuseries, Chris undertook extreme challenges to explore his physical and emotional limits and gain insights into longevity. In this episode, Chris discusses these many challenges—from fasting to arctic swims to 100-foot rope climbs—as well as the insights that he gained from each. Peter, who also played a role in the docuseries, guides Chris through the science of longevity, including what Chris’s APOE-ε4 genotype means for his risk of Alzheimer’s disease. Additionally, Chris describes how his outlook on health, happiness, work-life balance, and more have changed from his experience on Limitless.

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We discuss:

Limitless: how Chris got involved and his overall experience filming the docuseries [3:00];
“Fasting” ‒ ep. 3 of Limitless in which Chris attempts a 4-day fast [8:15];
“Shock” ‒ ep. 2 of Limitless in which Chris swims in the Arctic Ocean [12:15];
Cold exposure: the potential physical and mental benefits [19:30];
“Strength” ‒ ep. 4 of Limitless in which Chris explores how muscle can improve longevity [21:15];
The APOE-ε4 genotype and Alzheimer’s disease risk [31:30];
How Chris uses sauna [39:45];
“Acceptance” – ep. 6 of Limitless in which Chris explores the meaning of life by contemplating death [42:15];
Chris’s new perspective on work-life balance [52:00];
“Stress-Proof” – ep. 1 of Limitless in which Chris learns about the impact of stress and how to manage it [54:30];
Chris reflects on his intrinsic motivation driven by both fear and purpose [58:00];
Chris reflects on his career arc and how his presence as an actor has evolved [1:01:15];
How Chris’s outlook has changed since filming Limitless [1:05:00]; and
More.

Show Notes

Limitless: how Chris got involved and his overall experience filming the docuseries [3:00]

When was the first time you heard about this project, was it a call from Darren?

Yea, that was 3 years ago
Darren said he wanted to do a docuseries called Limitless on longevity And he knew Chris was fit and healthy, and he wanted to dive into the science of longevity He wanted to put Chris in some extreme/ intense physical and emotional situations and see how he fairs
Initially it was supposed to be a 3-week shoot, but once COVID hit, it got spread out over 2.5 years It transformed in the best way possible as a result of having this extra time to flesh out each episode and explore the science in greater detail Chris was able to grow throughout the experience and have different opinions on himself and how he approaches health and wellness They joked about the change in timeline and were thinking of changing the title to ‘Relentless’
And he knew Chris was fit and healthy, and he wanted to dive into the science of longevity
He wanted to put Chris in some extreme/ intense physical and emotional situations and see how he fairs
It transformed in the best way possible as a result of having this extra time to flesh out each episode and explore the science in greater detail
Chris was able to grow throughout the experience and have different opinions on himself and how he approaches health and wellness
They joked about the change in timeline and were thinking of changing the title to ‘Relentless’

What else were you working on while filming Limitless?

He had done the Avengers at this point and was thinking about doing a press tour when this came up
He hadn’t done Thor: Love and Thunder yet

Peter’s involvement in the project

November 2019, he was sitting in his apartment in New York with a core group from Nutopia and Protozoa (Darren, Ruth, Mary)
Peter remembers getting a call 3 years ago; the idea was 6 episodes
It’s amazing how quickly they morphed that into the first shoot in January

Did Chris have any apprehension about doing the Limitless series? (besides the time)

This was not acting
Chris was nervous, he had never hosted anything before where he was “himself”
This was a situation where it was not only looking into the science but dissecting his abilities and seeing what his limits were in one regard There’s a vulnerability that’s required there
He had to be authentic and didn’t want to hold back
He had some hesitation and did a of thinking about how he was going to come across Was it going to be genuine? Was it going to be appreciated or not? All sorts of silly doubts and questions started to creep in that he wasn’t normally thinking about
There’s a vulnerability that’s required there
Was it going to be genuine?
Was it going to be appreciated or not?
All sorts of silly doubts and questions started to creep in that he wasn’t normally thinking about

How the docuseries evolved

Chris doesn’t think any of them knew what the show was going to be
They talked about it taking 3-4 weeks
When he spoke to Darren earlier in the week about this he said, “ Yeah, it was a very different beast at the beginning ”
Due to the time they spent on it, it was allowed to evolve and become something bigger
The challenges became bigger too
There were discussions about cold water immersion and doing ice baths Then it became “ Let’s go to Norway, and let’s swim in the Arctic Ocean ”
Then it became “ Let’s go to Norway, and let’s swim in the Arctic Ocean ”

“ It became more and more epic as it went on ”‒ Chris Hemsworth

How the team evolved

Peter noticed there was a kind of joy in how close the team became, “ It’s like you seem to trust the team even more and more as time went on and gave more and more of yourself ”
Everybody involved in had the expectation this was going to be bracketed in terms of time and COVID, but then it changed The breadth of expectation of what this could be expanded the scope so much
The breadth of expectation of what this could be expanded the scope so much

Do you get the sense that you were willing to give way more of yourself as this thing went on then maybe you had committed to upfront?

Absolutely
Chris agrees, the trust in the people he was working with made a big difference He knew these were the experts in their field He knew they were taking care of him and advising him in the right way
Chris reflects, “ It’s like working with a director and each of the experts in each of these series were kind of leading the way and they were at the helm, and I was following. And if I have a good relationship with my director, and I trust them and that only comes through the experience and time spent, then I’m going to give more of myself and take more risks and not feel like it’s going to be exploited in any way. ”
He knew these were the experts in their field
He knew they were taking care of him and advising him in the right way

“Fasting” ‒ ep. 3 of Limitless in which Chris attempts a 4-day fast [8:15]

This was the 1st episode of Limitless that they filmed

What did Chris know going into this, and what was his expectation?

Chris had never fasted before
The initial discussions were around intermittent fasting and time restricted feeding
Then it became a day or a couple days, and then Peter said, “ No, we’re doing four days. ” Peter points out he suggested 3 days because he wouldn’t normally have a patient go more than 3 days on their 1st fast But they said, “ No, we’re going to do one more ”
Chris’s thoughts were around if he would be able to do it or not
He expected to kick into ketosis on day 2-3
When he got to day 4 he was like, “ Nah, I’m not feeling any of the sharpness or alertness ” But that afternoon when they went spear fishing, it kicked in and things started to percolate
As they were getting ready to head out on the boat, Peter realized how strong Chris was Because Chris didn’t have much time to prepare for the fast, and the circumstances weren’t ideal They worked out every day and did a bunch of other things They learned the entirely new skill of breath holding and spearfishing (that would be challenging under any circumstance)
Peter points out he suggested 3 days because he wouldn’t normally have a patient go more than 3 days on their 1st fast
But they said, “ No, we’re going to do one more ”
But that afternoon when they went spear fishing, it kicked in and things started to percolate
Because Chris didn’t have much time to prepare for the fast, and the circumstances weren’t ideal
They worked out every day and did a bunch of other things
They learned the entirely new skill of breath holding and spearfishing (that would be challenging under any circumstance)

It’s been almost 3 years since they filmed this episode, how much do you remember?

Was there ever a moment when you thought, “I’m not worried that something’s going to happen to me, but I’m worried that I’m not going to be successful?”

That was most episodes
As he was doing the Artic swim or 4-day fast or climbing the rope, Chris kept thinking “ Don’t complete this exercise ” There was a healthy amount of fear motivating him But he also kept coming back to the why of it and understanding the purpose of each challenge
There was a healthy amount of fear motivating him
But he also kept coming back to the why of it and understanding the purpose of each challenge

“ On one hand it looked like they were trying to kill me, but on the other hand it was like there was an incredible amount of information and knowledge and support and science there that says, “You do this. You do this consistently, you work this into your daily routine, then the benefits are exponential.” ”‒ Chris Hemsworth

“Shock” ‒ ep. 2 of Limitless in which Chris swims in the Arctic Ocean [12:15]

They filmed episode 2 in Norway, in February
Chris had maybe 2 weeks off when they went from Australia to Norway
Peter recalls, “ That was a beauty I couldn’t imagine ”
It was a place you would normally never go It took 3 flights (or something crazy) to get there
Jumping in the ocean when it’s 36 o F is a totally different experience than an ice bath Peter notes, “ It was another example of you were being asked to do something much quicker than you would normally do so ”
Chris was able to train for some of the episodes For the strength episode, he spent 6-7 months training on and off (due to injuries and so on)
To prepare for the cold water immersion he did a couple of ice baths back in Australia
Talking to Ross about it, the overarching idea was to look at the development of brown fat But Ross pointed out that not much was going to happen in 4 days
So it became as much of an adaptation around cold water immersion as it was a resilience test
The first time Chris jumped in the water in Norway he was in there for 4.5 minutes, and that was longer than any ice bath he had done It was snowing He’s breathing in freezing cold air, and it’s windy He’s also moving (treading water); in an ice bath you just sitting there and a couple mL of water will start to heat up if you stay still
For him it was trusting Ross and listening to Ross’s voice
If he didn’t have Ross there coaching him through it, he would’ve questioned it to no end On the actual swim itself, halfway through he was like, “ You’re dying, get out of the water. This is ridiculous. ”
It took 3 flights (or something crazy) to get there
Peter notes, “ It was another example of you were being asked to do something much quicker than you would normally do so ”
For the strength episode, he spent 6-7 months training on and off (due to injuries and so on)
But Ross pointed out that not much was going to happen in 4 days
It was snowing
He’s breathing in freezing cold air, and it’s windy
He’s also moving (treading water); in an ice bath you just sitting there and a couple mL of water will start to heat up if you stay still
On the actual swim itself, halfway through he was like, “ You’re dying, get out of the water. This is ridiculous. ”

What does it feel like to swim in water this cold?

Peter has done long swims at 49 o F, but he has never been in water that cold
It feels like you’re on fire (which is hard to understand)
You start to feel breathlessness, it takes your breath away
It was one of the most painful things Chris has ever done
It was very different from the ice bath
The big thing was putting his head underwater

Did you have earplugs?

No
His training was treading water, all with his head above water

Swimming in the Arctic Ocean

Ross proposed going for a proper swim, but Chris didn’t want to Chris was saving it for the actual shoot
But in hindsight, if he hadn’t experienced how painful it was, he would have been even more doubtful
He warmed up as much as possible before he stripped down and dove in
Ross suggested, “ When you get in, just take a second to try and adjust before you put your head under ”
Chris didn’t know they were filming when he did the warm up and walked down to the edge
He was in the water and huffing
Ross didn’t even have time to jump onto the boat that was chasing us along
Chris started swimming maybe 25, 30, 40 meters, and was like “ I got this ” He decided to do 2 laps
Once the initial adrenaline went away, he felt the most extreme headache pain right all through and to the back of his eyes, in front of his head, everywhere
He was looking at the bottom as he was swimming, and he started to get really dizzy
All of the sudden he stopped and realized he was going to throw up (it was that painful)
He looks and realizes he had swum off course a bit; so he starts swimming to where a couple of the camera guys were
They direct him to the buoy
So he heads down again, but the whole time he’s thinking, “ Nah, get out. Get out, get out, get out. ”
But he also has Ross’s voice in his head saying, “ Come on, fight, fight, dig in ,” so he just started going for it
But what starts to happen is your arms and legs are just like lead balloons, nothing works Peter adds, you can’t keep your fingers together, they start to splay; you can’t hold the water
When Chris got to the buoy, they were all cheering and stuff and Darren said, “ Oh, I was waiting for a big celebration ” But Chris couldn’t move; he thought he was going to die
Chris was saving it for the actual shoot
He decided to do 2 laps
Peter adds, you can’t keep your fingers together, they start to splay; you can’t hold the water
But Chris couldn’t move; he thought he was going to die

“ I couldn’t move. I just thought I was going to die. ”‒ Chris Hemsworth

They had to drag him onto the jet ski and then the boat
He started to warm up with a blanket and beanie
The feeling afterward was wild

“ I’ve never felt the endorphin kick and the sort of elation that I felt afterward ”‒ Chris Hemsworth

He remembers the most serene, peaceful state in awe of everything A wonderful sense of calm and overwhelming sort of joy
There in Norway, it’s the most stunning backdrop
A wonderful sense of calm and overwhelming sort of joy

Chris thinks this feeling comes with any time you achieve something that you think is impossible or overcome some great challenge

There’s such a beautiful feeling
It made him think about people who climb Everest and do extreme feats all the time, while the rest of us are wondering, “ Why the hell would you do that? ” Chris explains, “ I believe it’s for that, that moment; that post feeling was pretty special. I’ll remember it for a long time .”
Peter thinks there is something to that, and it’s not just accomplishing the feat, “ It’s the temporal juxtaposition of being so low and so high ” Think of how you don’t feel speed on an airplane, you feel acceleration We’re only wired to feel the rate of change, and he thinks this is true of emotion He doesn’t think you feel profound joy if you’re constantly in a state of bliss and everything is going well all the time 4 minutes earlier, Chris was thinking he was going to die So later there is this unbelievable surge of positive emotion He thinks there’s a physiologic explanation for what Chris experienced To go from your absolute lowest to your absolute highest in 4 minutes (with no negative, lasting injury); that’s the juice
Chris explains, “ I believe it’s for that, that moment; that post feeling was pretty special. I’ll remember it for a long time .”
Think of how you don’t feel speed on an airplane, you feel acceleration
We’re only wired to feel the rate of change, and he thinks this is true of emotion
He doesn’t think you feel profound joy if you’re constantly in a state of bliss and everything is going well all the time 4 minutes earlier, Chris was thinking he was going to die So later there is this unbelievable surge of positive emotion
He thinks there’s a physiologic explanation for what Chris experienced
To go from your absolute lowest to your absolute highest in 4 minutes (with no negative, lasting injury); that’s the juice
4 minutes earlier, Chris was thinking he was going to die
So later there is this unbelievable surge of positive emotion

Figure 1. Chris surfing in the Arctic Ocean. Image credit: National Geographic for Disney+/Craig Parry

Cold exposure: the potential physical and mental benefits [19:30]

Peter thinks of all the things in Limitless (the strength stuff, endurance, mental challenges), the hardest one to make the case, scientifically, that it will make you live longer is to go and jump in the Arctic Ocean and swim
However, says Peter, he thinks there’s a benefit to get used to cold water exposure
Even on a busy morning like this morning, Peter spent 30 seconds to 1 minutes in a cold shower in the hotel
He loves that feeling of the first time you get into the ice water
There is really compelling evidence for what this does to brain chemistry (see studies listed in the selected links section at the end)
Although in Chris’s swim, it was to a much higher degree than just taking a cold shower or an ice bath
Peter thinks his brain was probably being flooded with endorphins and neurotransmitters that are very positive

Are ice baths still part of your routine?

Oh, for sure
It’s probably the endorphin kick, but also every time Chris gets in the ice bath, it’s still brutal
The moment you get out, you’ve gone from one extreme to another, it’s an instant kick of happiness
Chris says he thinks that from inflammation repair to general mood, it helps him If he wakes in the morning and is feeling off or achy, jumping in the cold shower is a game changer
If he wakes in the morning and is feeling off or achy, jumping in the cold shower is a game changer

Does Elsa join you? Do your kids join you?

Yea, they have a sauna and ice bath set up at home, and it’s the best rehab
Elsa does it
The kids will jump in, but not that long

“ Single best investment I’ve ever made was the sauna and cold plunge at home ”‒ Peter Attia

“Strength” ‒ ep. 4 of Limitless in which Chris explores how muscle can improve longevity [21:15]

This is a great example of where COVID really benefited the series because the initial challenge for strength was kind of an interesting challenge, but the one Chris ultimately ended up doing was better
Peter’s view on this from a scientific perspective, was what can we say about strength and longevity (or fitness and longevity) Grip strength and cardiorespiratory fitness would be top of the list
That’s why he thinks this was a perfect challenge because it’s grip strength and it’s top-end cardiorespiratory fitness This challenge was an epic rope climb (100 feet)
Grip strength and cardiorespiratory fitness would be top of the list
This challenge was an epic rope climb (100 feet)

Figure 2. Chris completing the rope climb challenge . Image credit: National Geographic for Disney+/Craig Parry

Training for the challenge

Initially Chris was going to be in a harness and pulling a car across a section of land Ross actually had done that for 20 hours or something crazy, and he was training Chris Chris did a good month pulling a sled in the backyard He had a little Polaris dune buggy thing he was pulling for a bit But it just started to aggravate his back and joints and everything
He then transitioned to the rope climb, and it was probably more on point as far as the science around strength and longevity
As he started training for the rope climb, he’d never climbed a rope before Ross had also done a feat like that, and so he was training Chris Ross said, “ Look, you want to be strong, but you don’t want to be heavy. The heavier you are, the harder it is going to be to get up that rope .”
Chris had a 3 meter (10 feet) rope in his house He would train by climbing 3/4ths the way up and jumping off and doing loops like that One day he jumped down and blew out his ankle He ruptured all the ligaments and tore ligaments
Ross actually had done that for 20 hours or something crazy, and he was training Chris
Chris did a good month pulling a sled in the backyard He had a little Polaris dune buggy thing he was pulling for a bit But it just started to aggravate his back and joints and everything
He had a little Polaris dune buggy thing he was pulling for a bit
But it just started to aggravate his back and joints and everything
Ross had also done a feat like that, and so he was training Chris
Ross said, “ Look, you want to be strong, but you don’t want to be heavy. The heavier you are, the harder it is going to be to get up that rope .”
He would train by climbing 3/4ths the way up and jumping off and doing loops like that
One day he jumped down and blew out his ankle He ruptured all the ligaments and tore ligaments
He ruptured all the ligaments and tore ligaments

Was there anything different that day?

He was in the gym set up in his house
He was watching the UFC, and his mates were in the next room
He was trying to get in 15 minutes and this was the last one
He jumped off onto a mat and just rolled his ankle It turned blue straight away
Nutopia and the team from National Geographic were in Australia ready to shoot the next week so he had to call them and tell them it wasn’t going to happen
That was the foot he was going to anchor off as he was pulling himself up
It turned blue straight away

Training for Thor and how it impacted his rope climb

Figure 3. Thor theatrical release poster. Image credit: Wikipedia

Chris’s weight fluctuated throughout the Limitless filming
He had been training quite intensely with Ross prior to filming and training for Thor and learned some pretty unique, special things about how to just blast the body and do the most effective intense workouts, and when and what to eat and so on He was schooled in that more so than he’d ever been before
For his Thor role, he had an opportunity to get stronger and bigger than he ever was, but the timing of it didn’t line up with the rope climb challenge
When Ross turned up, he hadn’t been using the rope at all because he’d been working on Thor
They started doing it and Chris was so heavy that after getting in 3-4 pulls up, everything was tightening up on him
So he had about 2 weeks where Chris just stopped lifting weights completely
Chris adds, “ It’s funny, I don’t know if you’ve ever put on a big amount of muscle that it doesn’t take long for your body to go, “Okay, we can switch gears now.” ”
He started a lot more rope pulls and sled pulls
In 2.5 weeks of not lifting weights and reducing his calories dramatically he probably lost a couple of kg (4-5 lbs)
But he was still heavier than he should have been for the rope climb
He was schooled in that more so than he’d ever been before

This became less about his training/ preparation and more about grit and the will to just get up there

He remembers Ross being at the top of the cart going, “ Make it a fierce fight, make it a fight. Come on, big man .” That was in his head
That was in his head

How long did it take, start to finish?

Probably a couple of minutes
It was a long time to be climbing a rope
There was a harness to catch him if he fell
He was surprised that the quad burn was one of the most gnarly things From doing the push and the anchor Especially his right leg
His biceps and forearms were also burning
When he got off, he had claws; he couldn’t extend his fingers (they were locked)
From doing the push and the anchor
Especially his right leg

How do you feel physically now from a strength perspective in terms of how this has kind of morphed your training a little bit?

His training is more specific now
When he was younger he could get away with going in and just starting to throw weights around (biceps, back, chest, and shoulders)
Now he’s smart about warming up and not hitting everything too many times
This came from working with Ross and his trainer Luke Zocchi
He’s learned a more targeted approach
Everything is about explosive energy lighting up your sympathetic nervous system
He’s gotten far more gains training like this

Chris’s genetics around muscle fibers

He has a pretty favorable gene around fast-twitch muscle fibers It’s sort of a genetic predisposition to be muscular, strong, and to be explosive
Chris was lean when he was younger, but when he started doing more pushups or whatever, he would grow
He adds, “ I’ve always had to work my ass off in that space. But yeah, I do feel I’ve had some benefits there. ”
One of the hallmarks of aging is the atrophy (shrinkage) of these fast-twitch muscle fibers This is why people are losing strength and power and explosiveness most rapidly as they age much more than they’re losing endurance, slow-twitch fiber
One of the things Peter always talks about with patients is, “ Hey, we need you lifting weights all the time. You start early, and you never stop lifting weights. And the heaviest you can lift is the better because it’s only through lifting heavy weights that you can really get those fast-twitch type II muscle fibers firing .”
So the fact that Chris kind of has a genetic predisposition to have more of them is a good thing
It’s sort of a genetic predisposition to be muscular, strong, and to be explosive
This is why people are losing strength and power and explosiveness most rapidly as they age much more than they’re losing endurance, slow-twitch fiber

The APOE-ε4 genotype and Alzheimer’s disease risk [31:30]

One of Peter’s earliest memories of this whole experience was in Dec. 2019‒ Chris was in LA to get some blood work done
To kick off the first bit of shooting, Peter was to sit down with Chris in January in Australia and go through his blood work
Peter got the blood test back 2 weeks before he was supposed to go to Australia; he saw something that he didn’t want to go through with Chris for the first time on camera It was too much Peter could discuss all of the results except for this one thing; he asked Darren to trust him, and he did
Darren called Chris in a panic and was like, “ You’ve got to call Peter Attia, something’s come up but I don’t know what it is ” Chris was rattled
Peter hasn’t had many patients with 2 copies of the APOE-ε4 allele (maybe 3) Only about 1% of the population has this genotype 2 of Peter’s patients suspected their genotype based on family history For 1 patient, it was a total shocker
Peter tells his patients, “ Look, this is a gene that really increases risk of Alzheimer’s disease but it’s not a deterministic gene ” This is a hard concept to explain to somebody who doesn’t eat, sleep and breathe genetics Which is, you have this gene and it doesn’t guarantee this thing is going to happen And there are some genes that are deterministic, for example if you have the gene for Huntington’s disease , you’re going to get Huntington’s disease This isn’t that kind of gene, but it’s increasing your odds, and that’s the bad news
It was too much
Peter could discuss all of the results except for this one thing; he asked Darren to trust him, and he did
Chris was rattled
Only about 1% of the population has this genotype
2 of Peter’s patients suspected their genotype based on family history
For 1 patient, it was a total shocker
This is a hard concept to explain to somebody who doesn’t eat, sleep and breathe genetics
Which is, you have this gene and it doesn’t guarantee this thing is going to happen
And there are some genes that are deterministic, for example if you have the gene for Huntington’s disease , you’re going to get Huntington’s disease
This isn’t that kind of gene, but it’s increasing your odds, and that’s the bad news

The good news is, the earlier you know this, the more you can do to mitigate risk

How much of this message did you hear back then?

Chris knew nothing about the science or the markers and so on, outside of that one conversation
When he hung up the phone and was trying to explain it to his wife, he was like, “Y eah, I’m not really sure what he just said, but I think I’m more vulnerable to Alzheimer’s .”
Chris wishes they’d had more conversations immediately after because he spent a week thinking, “ What does this mean? What’s going to happen, and how long have I got? ”
He tried to talk to his parents about it, and they didn’t know much about it either
His grandfather has Alzheimer’s and it’s been very tragic to watch
This was a good kick in the ass and a reminder for Chris to do whatever’s within his control to give himself the best fighting chance
And whatever work he’s doing for brain health benefits the rest of his body and life anyway, so he turned it into a positive

When and why did you decide you wanted to be public with something so personal?

One of the interesting things about filming this is we did everything in duplicate for those episodes
They talked about all this stuff and realized there was a good chance they were not going to want to talk about this particular aspect of Chris’s health publically So they redid that whole thing without this
For about 2 years, they didn’t know which version they were going to use This was 100% Chris’s decision
Chris replied, “ Well, the same reason it’s motivated me to make positive changes. I thought, “Well, that’s a great opportunity for anyone else out there who may be in the same situation to either go and get checked or to understand more about brain health and see what they have within their power to make that change.” ”
So they redid that whole thing without this
This was 100% Chris’s decision

“ It’s a missed opportunity to motivate others to do the same if I don’t talk about it ”‒ Chris Hemsworth

When they put together the episode they didn’t overdramatize it or exploit anything
They did a great job making it relatable, to show that Chris was a human being like anyone who has many of the same challenges and is up against the same things as all of use are

How Chris uses sauna [39:45]

Before they shot the series in Norway, Chris talked about how much of a fan of sauna he was, then they got into the science of why
It hasn’t been proven to the same extent as some things because much of the data is observational
But the data is overwhelmingly positive in the same direction with every single study

Has sauna taken on a more urgent role?

Yeah, definitely; it’s become a bigger part of Chris’s daily routine
He often uses it after a workout
He doesn’t know what the science says, but he feels great after doing it It helps with mood elevation The same with an ice bath
Peter agrees, even if the benefit of heat shock proteins is less than we think
Peter notices benefits for his sleep when he uses the sauna
For Chris, when he’s been training a lot and wakes up achy he will get in the sauna in the morning and do an ice bath, and he feels 50% better “ I feel like everything’s just kind of lit up and awakens ”
It helps with mood elevation
The same with an ice bath
“ I feel like everything’s just kind of lit up and awakens ”

“Acceptance” – ep. 6 of Limitless in which Chris explores the meaning of life by contemplating death [42:15]

When Peter thinks about he last episode, this one more than any other reaped the benefit of COVID because they had much more time to flesh it out The initial version was kind of gimmicky
The initial version was kind of gimmicky

Did you have much of a hand in the creative side of that or were you just a passenger?

Chris was a passenger
He was kept in the dark intentionally; Darren didn’t want him to know much about it
It was an immersive theater experience, and Chris is glad he didn’t know because he feels like he would’ve had preconceived ideas and expectations This would have biased his reaction So to go into it blind and just open and ready for whatever they were going to throw at him was exciting and different from the other episodes There was no prep or understanding of the science prior to shooting
All he knew was it was about the acceptance of death
This would have biased his reaction
So to go into it blind and just open and ready for whatever they were going to throw at him was exciting and different from the other episodes
There was no prep or understanding of the science prior to shooting

What did that “aging suit” feel like?

Figure 4. Chris plays ping pong in the aging suit. Image credit: National Geographic for Disney+/Craig Parry

Uncomfortable, incredibly restrictive
Because he couldn’t hear properly, and people spoke to him with a condescending/ patronizing tone How you often hear people talk to the elderly Chris thought, “ Oh, my god, I hope I don’t do that ”
It was incredibly isolating too
His vision was diminished, he couldn’t hear so everything felt pulled away
The contrast between having all of his abilities the hour before he put the suit on, and not having 50 years to transition into that was extreme
How you often hear people talk to the elderly
Chris thought, “ Oh, my god, I hope I don’t do that ”

“ There are so many things about that episode that are beyond beautiful ”‒ Peter Attia

One of the subtle things Peter liked about that episode was that all of the residents of that place were not actors
The episode was slightly over an hour, but Peter assumes it was shot over several days So they had a lot of time on the set A lot of the folks didn’t know who he was prior to this
So they had a lot of time on the set
A lot of the folks didn’t know who he was prior to this

What was it like, interacting with the people in this episode?

It was unique and different on so many levels
Being in a retirement village with elderly folks who were there for the fun of the episode, but were just genuine and truthful and honest and didn’t hold back with anything they were thinking (no filter) It was great; it was refreshing
It was different from being in an industry where a lot of people know who you are and a lot of the time you’re sort of supported in what you’re doing and everything’s made as accommodating as possible
This was like, “ No, you’re one of us now ”
It was great; it was refreshing

“ It was fantastic, sort of brought me straight back to earth if I’d drifted previously ”‒ Chris Hemsworth

Peter has known Chris for many years, and he’s pretty down to earth
That episode was different because there was no superhero component to it
Chris was a lot more nervous about that episode than anything else because it wasn’t something he could fight or muscle through or just put my head down, drip my teeth and go for it He had to be completely open and vulnerable and accessible and confront things that he had never really thought about that much He had to interact with people who were at the end of their days Or who had dealt with death in very extreme ways Or come close to death
To go from one environment of physical sort of challenge and feats and then go into this emotional state was a real shock and an adjustment
Chris is proud of what the episode became because it’s unlike anything he’s ever done or seen
He had to be completely open and vulnerable and accessible and confront things that he had never really thought about that much
He had to interact with people who were at the end of their days Or who had dealt with death in very extreme ways Or come close to death
Or who had dealt with death in very extreme ways
Or come close to death

BJ Miller’s story [48:30]

Peter is guessing Chris didn’t know BJ MIller’s story before that episode See episode #125 of The Drive with BJ Miller
No, he didn’t
See episode #125 of The Drive with BJ Miller

You heard this story for the first time on camera, what did it feel like?

What was more emotional, the tragedy of the story or how you were moved by his resilience and how he overcame it to do what he’s doing?

It’s a combination of things
He is one of the most unique individuals Chris has ever met
There is something saintly and otherworldly about him
His story shook Chris
Also the strength now with which he reflects upon it and his attitude toward what happened to him was so inspiring.
Chris was really exhausted coming into that episode It felt like he was at the end of a five year run of different films and work and he was shooting this series throughout
He was more vulnerable than he’d been in a long time,
There were a lot of the questions that were starting to circulate through his head‒ Am I proud of what I’ve done? What’s next?
Chris adds, “ All I kept thinking was I have been sprinting through life and the moments and opportunities and I’m grateful for them, but I’ve been very quickly going to the next one, to the next one, next one. And I was in a bit of a state of what’s next and what’s the point and who am I? ”
He hadn’t been able to analyze these questions, but they were there in the back of his head
His mom had said something a few days before that she’d had this experience where she came pretty close to what she thought was going to be her death (in a very instant sort of moment) She’s fine now, but she said, “ Oh, I wasn’t at all afraid to go because I realized I’m so thankful for my life and I’m so happy about everything I’ve had and all the experiences ” Chris thought, “ Well, what a beautiful feeling ”
And in that moment, when he was talking to BJ about it, he got really emotional because he realized that he’s “not ready yet” “ I have all these beautiful things around me and family and friends, but I can’t go yet. This is not my time. ”
It felt like he was at the end of a five year run of different films and work and he was shooting this series throughout
Am I proud of what I’ve done?
What’s next?
She’s fine now, but she said, “ Oh, I wasn’t at all afraid to go because I realized I’m so thankful for my life and I’m so happy about everything I’ve had and all the experiences ”
Chris thought, “ Well, what a beautiful feeling ”
“ I have all these beautiful things around me and family and friends, but I can’t go yet. This is not my time. ”

Considering your own death

It was strange because they were manipulating everything in that space to make him feel like he’s going to die, and he’s asked to think about his death, how he would want it to be and so on

But I had this sort of sense of urgency of just‒ I’m not ready

This made him think about his kids and how they’re growing up and things are changing so dramatically

“ It made me think about my kids and how they’re growing up and things are changing so dramatically, and I want to sit, I want to soak it in. I don’t want to be in a sprint anymore. I want to be more present. I want to be right here and appreciate everything that’s in front of me. ”‒ Chris Hemsworth

He’s tried to articulate that a few times and he doesn’t know if he’s hit the nail on the head This exactly why something in him felt so fragile at that point
That whole experience shook him to his core and made him want to slow down and just race home to his family and kids And not jump on another plane and travel and work and do anything else
This exactly why something in him felt so fragile at that point
And not jump on another plane and travel and work and do anything else

Natalie’s story

Peter thinks about the time Chris was sitting on the bench next to Natalie was equally profound

You weren’t aware of Natalie’s story. Were you wondering why they were having you talk to a normal looking, healthy 27-year -old woman?

Yeah, definitely
What she said, there was an urgency from her to shake people and say, “ Wake up. It doesn’t last forever. The end could come at any moment, so make the most of it, and love and laugh and live with a sense of gratitude and joy. ”
That was incredibly inspiring
It was heartbreaking hearing what she’s been facing at such a young age
Chris is really thankful that he had those conversations
He was forced to have this realization now, not when he’s 80 He’s so glad he’s not sitting on his deathbed going, “ Damn, I should have done this. I could have done this. If only I’d done that. ”
He felt like this was an awakening or a sort of shake up It came at the perfect time
He’s so glad he’s not sitting on his deathbed going, “ Damn, I should have done this. I could have done this. If only I’d done that. ”
It came at the perfect time

Chris’s new perspective on work-life balance [52:00]

You haven’t had more than 2 months off in the last 10 years, right?

Yeah, pretty much
During COVID and even now he’s still working on prepping things

What Chris’s daughter said when he jokingly suggested to her that he might retire

Chris has worked so hard, and been so successful
With that success has come so many wonderful things‒ wealth, fame, a platform
Peter adds, “ More people are going to know what the APOE4 gene is and why they need to be tested and what they can do about it because of this episode… than would’ve ever come out of the scientific literature ever ” This is all attributed to Chris’s platform
So there’s all of these amazing things both to Chris personally and to society at large that come from this
But at the same time, that’s not sustainable
Everytime Chris leaves for a work trip, he tells his kids, “ It’s not long. Soon, I’m going to take some downtime. ”
His daughter sort of rolls her eyes at this and says, “ Yeah, sure ”
He told her, “ Look, when I’m done with this tour, I’m having a big chunk of time at home. ” She goes, “ Oh, great, awesome. It’d be fun then. ”
He replied, “ Yeah, and maybe I’ll just retire. Maybe this is it. Maybe I’ll stay home with you forever now. ” She’s like, “ No, Dad, you can’t… Kids love seeing you play Thor. ”
This was a beautiful moment of understanding that maybe there is a purpose to it
For Chris, he’s been chasing his career for a number of reasons It’s been his journey
There’s a sense of guilt that comes with chasing down your dreams all the time When you have kids, it’s not about your dreams anymore, it’s about theirs He has a family to take care of
This is all attributed to Chris’s platform
She goes, “ Oh, great, awesome. It’d be fun then. ”
She’s like, “ No, Dad, you can’t… Kids love seeing you play Thor. ”
It’s been his journey
When you have kids, it’s not about your dreams anymore, it’s about theirs
He has a family to take care of

Chris was questioning what he’s contributed or done, and hearing his daughter say that was a beautiful little moment

He doesn’t want to retire for a number of reasons
He certainly wants to replenish and fill up his cup again
He feels like he’s been a flat stick for so long now He’s loved it and is very thankful for it But he needs a chunk of time at home to to get reinspired
He’s loved it and is very thankful for it
But he needs a chunk of time at home to to get reinspired

“Stress-Proof” – ep. 1 of Limitless in which Chris learns about the impact of stress and how to manage it [54:30]

How is your sleep now compared to 3 years ago?

Chris has a restless mind, he would wake up a lot in the middle of the night He’s have a thought and fixate on it Sometimes it was a very rational thought like, “ I’m worried about the success of this film. I’m worried about my relationship with my wife. I’m worried about… ” These are normal things to be concerned with But they would wake him up and he wouldn’t be able to go back to sleep Sometimes theory were things that seemed less rational, and all of us have those very irrational thoughts Chris adds, “ It’s mostly irrational ”
In general, he is sleeping better than he was back then
He was just running in a state of fight or flight constantly, but that was required
For him to leave Australia with not a whole lot of money in the bank and live on people’s couches and audition and audition To go through that sort of grind and be told no a million times and still obsessively be pushing forward requires a huge amount of compulsive-obsessive, self-motivated drive
The problem is you then start to achieve those things, and he’s no longer in the same sort of fight that he was, but he’s still acting like he is His internal environment is still thinking it’s running away from the dinosaurs or whatever
The more comfortable he gets, the more he rationally talks himself through, “ Hey, it’s all okay now. You can afford to do this and this and this and you don’t have to… You worry so much about it not working out. ”
And some of that dissipates, but it’s there all the time
He’d be lying if he said he had a complete handle on it
He also doesn’t want to dismiss it too much because it’s what got him here It’s a tool that he will still need to use at certain times
So he’s monitoring that, and he hears a lot of people talk on that
He’s have a thought and fixate on it
Sometimes it was a very rational thought like, “ I’m worried about the success of this film. I’m worried about my relationship with my wife. I’m worried about… ” These are normal things to be concerned with But they would wake him up and he wouldn’t be able to go back to sleep
Sometimes theory were things that seemed less rational, and all of us have those very irrational thoughts Chris adds, “ It’s mostly irrational ”
These are normal things to be concerned with
But they would wake him up and he wouldn’t be able to go back to sleep
Chris adds, “ It’s mostly irrational ”
To go through that sort of grind and be told no a million times and still obsessively be pushing forward requires a huge amount of compulsive-obsessive, self-motivated drive
His internal environment is still thinking it’s running away from the dinosaurs or whatever
It’s a tool that he will still need to use at certain times

What is required to get to a certain place is a blessing and a curse. It’s a hard thing to switch off once you’ve opened the gates.

Peter thinks this is a common thread for people who have achieved great success

Chris reflects on his intrinsic motivation driven by both fear and purpose [58:00]

When you think about your motivation, when you think about the love you have for your craft, is there a way to use excitement more than fear?

Peter recalls the story of Chris’s father when he told him that he wasn’t going to be paying off the mortgage anytime soon Chris realized all that his parents had done for him and his brothers, and he wanted more for them
So part of the fuel for Chris’s success was the desire to take care of his family
But he also had a real passion for what he does He’s an artist who enjoys making art
Peter asks, “ Where’s the fire coming from? Is the fire coming from a place of fear? Is the fire coming from a place of love? I mean, do those go back and forth for you from time to time, in different seasons? ”
Absolutely, yeah
Chris used to get intense performance anxiety when he was first acting, and it was debilitating He would go to auditions, and he’d want to throw up and would be shaking
Even when he got jobs, he would be on a set and it was like he couldn’t think or see He felt like he was going to pass out
He was fighting that for years
Talking about fear or excitement, Chris remembers reading something about tests with athletes, performers, musicians, actors, whatever (anyone in a sort of adrenaline fueled sort of space) They asked them if they were nervous or excited before an event Some of them said they were scared out of their minds Some of them said they were pumped The interesting thing is, they all had the same physical response‒ elevated heart, pulse, clammy hands, short of breath, etc.
Chris realized all that his parents had done for him and his brothers, and he wanted more for them
He’s an artist who enjoys making art
He would go to auditions, and he’d want to throw up and would be shaking
He felt like he was going to pass out
They asked them if they were nervous or excited before an event
Some of them said they were scared out of their minds
Some of them said they were pumped
The interesting thing is, they all had the same physical response‒ elevated heart, pulse, clammy hands, short of breath, etc.

That was a real light bulb moment, and Chris thought “The only difference was how they labeled that feeling”

That’s when Chris realized he had programmed himself to say this feeling is bad That fear is negative
He decided to see it as a positive and realize, “ My spidey senses are up now. I’m going to be able to think faster, react quicker, see clearer. My vision will be sharp. ”
That fear is negative

It was all just a decision to see it differently

He thinks fear has a place, it pushes you
Your purpose pulls you
You need both of them to have an equal relevance in the conversation “ It’s a bloody good motivator too ”
“ It’s a bloody good motivator too ”

Chris’s motivation during the challenges of Limitless

In half of the challenges, Chris was afraid of looking ridiculous if he didn’t complete this task or the fact that the episode wouldn’t have worked That fear kept him going But also the sort of purpose of why he was doing it kept him going
He thinks both fear and purpose deserve equal relevance in the conversation It’s about balance If you have too much of, “ Oh, my purpose and my thing ,” there can be a lack of humility He feels fear has allowed him to have more of a self-deprecating sort of sense of humor about himself and the world and the work Hopefully it keeps him humble
That fear kept him going
But also the sort of purpose of why he was doing it kept him going
It’s about balance
If you have too much of, “ Oh, my purpose and my thing ,” there can be a lack of humility
He feels fear has allowed him to have more of a self-deprecating sort of sense of humor about himself and the world and the work Hopefully it keeps him humble
Hopefully it keeps him humble

Chris reflects on his career arc and how his presence as an actor has evolved [1:01:15]

What was the first role you had where you allowed yourself to think, “ I’m going to make it ”?

In the first Thor film he thought, “ Great, I’m in the game ” This was 2011 But he didn’t know if the film was going to work He didn’t know if they were going to do an Avengers film
This was 2011
But he didn’t know if the film was going to work
He didn’t know if they were going to do an Avengers film

Was there something funny in the audition for Thor ?

Chris didn’t get a call back; he got some pretty bad feedback to the effect of, “ We’re not even going to give you any sort of constructive criticism or anything. It was just kind of minimal and nothing ”
He was shooting a film in Vancouver and his little brother calls him to tell him they were flying him to LA for the film Thor His brother Liam sent in an audition on tape
They had 6 final guys for Thor, and Liam was one of them Joss Whedon and Drew Goddard were with Liam, and they both said, “ What the hell’s going on here? Was this your brother… Why aren’t you in the mix? You should be Thor. ” They worked with Chris on The Cabin in the Woods
So they reopened the casting and Chris got a chance to do an audition, he sent in a tape
He was called back to meet with Ken Branagh and do the audition
Chris had a very different attitude about it He didn’t put anyone on a pedestal like he did the first time He was a little pissed off that his brother had gotten there and he hadn’t It was good motivation
It’s about perspective
He was able to walk into that room and give the very best version of whatever he had to offer, as opposed to people pleasing and asking, “ Is this what you want? Or is it this way? ” There’s a lack of strength with that other attitude They needed a character to be assertive He had a lot more presence in that space than he did the first time around (and he got the part)
His brother Liam sent in an audition on tape
Joss Whedon and Drew Goddard were with Liam, and they both said, “ What the hell’s going on here? Was this your brother… Why aren’t you in the mix? You should be Thor. ” They worked with Chris on The Cabin in the Woods
They worked with Chris on The Cabin in the Woods
He didn’t put anyone on a pedestal like he did the first time
He was a little pissed off that his brother had gotten there and he hadn’t It was good motivation
It was good motivation
There’s a lack of strength with that other attitude
They needed a character to be assertive
He had a lot more presence in that space than he did the first time around (and he got the part)

How long does an audition take?

Usually, you have a few days to learn it
Sometimes they call you at lunchtime and want you to come in that afternoon and read it
When you’re actually there in front of them, it depends on how well (or bad) it goes It could be 5 minutes, 2 minutes, an hour
Chris has had people answer the phone midway through his audition and be like, “ Yep, that’s great. Thank you very much. We’ll call you .” It’s brutal You either become numb or it destroys you
It could be 5 minutes, 2 minutes, an hour
It’s brutal
You either become numb or it destroys you

How’d you hear about Rush ?

Ron Howard was making the film, Chris didn’t know anything about Formula 1
Chris’s agent called him and told him he should do an audition
Ron Howard said, “ Oh, look, I’ve seen Thor. He’s great, but he’s not right for the character. He won’t fit in the Formula 1 car ” Chris replied, “ Well, I’m not that size… I’m doing an audition. ”
Chris watched an interview with James Hunt , and his hair was long enough that he could style it like his
Chris replied, “ Well, I’m not that size… I’m doing an audition. ”

Had he already picked Daniel for Niki ?

Chris thinks so
Peter loves that film, “ If you were getting a dollar for every time that film got watched by me, you’d be even more wealthy .”
Chris hasn’t seen it since the premier It’s hard to watch yourself
It’s hard to watch yourself

So you don’t take your kids to Thor or they don’t watch it around the house?

He’ll watch it once or twice
If he’s producing it, he’ll stick through it a bit more
But it should be uncomfortable Chris thinks there’s something narcissistic about enjoying it too much
Chris thinks there’s something narcissistic about enjoying it too much

How Chris’s outlook has changed since filming Limitless [1:05:00]

If we’re sitting here in 5 years and your life is better than it is today, what are you doing?

Peter is think of this in terms of the final episode of Limitless Meaning that Chris is running less The balance between purpose and fear is more in favor of purpose He feels more connected to his kids and family
There is another thing came up in the episode that Chris wants to clarify
He doesn’t feel like he’s been doing anything wrong as much as he’s been in the storm of it
He has a beautiful relationship with his kids, wife, and family
He’ll be there with them, but his brain is pulled in a million other places
Meaning that Chris is running less
The balance between purpose and fear is more in favor of purpose
He feels more connected to his kids and family

Is it just about a state of mind?

It’s both (what he’s doing and his state of mind)
In the episode Chris was asked to imagine what his death would look like And if this was his final moment, who would he have around? Where would he be?
He realized, it’s in the living room with his family and friends That’s where he is every other weekend
And if this was his final moment, who would he have around?
Where would he be?
That’s where he is every other weekend

Chris’s realization

It’s already right here in front of you, change your attitude
He realized he wanted to do this even more now and he has an opportunity to do that because he’s not in the fight or the sprint anymore
He wanted to be more curated with his choices
He wanted to have more time pre and post the film to prepare and decompress as opposed to just piling one after the other

Does that mean more directing, shifting the balance a little bit?

Chris thinks it’s who the directors are Working with people that are at the top of their game He’s been so lucky to have worked with some wonderful people (like George Miller )
To continue to work with individuals like that where he’s learning from them It’s a collaboration, but they’re at the helm; they’re steering the ship He doesn’t feel like he’s got to police anyone else there
It is the dream, and then he’s inspired by those people, and he’s doing it for the right reasons
He’s working from an artistic space and an expression, as opposed to a financial one
Working with people that are at the top of their game
He’s been so lucky to have worked with some wonderful people (like George Miller )
It’s a collaboration, but they’re at the helm; they’re steering the ship
He doesn’t feel like he’s got to police anyone else there

He can be more curated in his choices and have more stillness and more calm

Reflections on what they learned working on Limitless

Peter got involved with Limitless because Darren and him are such good friends; doing something fun like this with Darren was the motivation
When he reflects on the last 3 years, one of the most unexpected joys has been meeting Chris and all the people around him
To know that Chris is surrounded by amazing people like Ben, Aaron, Zach, his family, his parents, and brothers, Peter adds, “ You are rich, Chris. You are rich in people. ”

For Chris, the biggest joy is the people he’s met through this experience and the knowledge that friendship is the most important

Selected Links / Related Material

Docuseries Limitless : Limitless with Chris Hemsworth | National Geographic on Disney+ (2022)

Effects of cold exposure on brain chemistry :

Autonomic nervous function during whole-body cold exposure before and after cold acclimation | Aviation, Space, and Environmental Medicine (TM Makinen 2008)
Improved mood following a single immersion in cold water | Lifestyle Medicine (JS Kelly & Ellis Bird 2021)
Effect of Acute Cold Stress on Neuroethology in Mice and Establishment of Its Model | Animals (Y Hu et al. 2022)

Benefit of sauna and heat shock proteins : Cardiovascular and Other Health Benefits of Sauna Bathing: A Review of the Evidence | Mayo Clinic Proceedings (JA Laukkanen et al. 2018)

BJ Miller’s story : #135 – BJ Miller, M.D.: How understanding death leads to a better life | Peter Attia (peterattiamd.com) [48:30]

People Mentioned

Darren Aronofsky (American film director, producer, and screenwriter, directed Limitless with Chris Hemsworth )
Luke Zocchi (personal trainer and author, Chris’s trainer)
Richard Isaacson (Professor of Neurology at Weill Cornell Medicine)
Kellyann Niotis (preventative neurologist at Early Medical specializing in neurodegenerative disorders)
BJ Miller (has a powerful near death story) [48:30]
Joss Whedon (American filmmaker and writer, co-wrote and produced The Cabin in the Woods )
Drew Goddard (American filmmaker, directed The Cabin in the Woods )
Ken Branagh (British actor and filmmaker, directed Thor )
Ron Howard (American director, producer, screenwriter, actor)
James Hunt (British race car driver who won the Formula 1 championship in 1976)
Daniel Brühl (Spanish-German actor and filmmaker, starred in Rush )
Niki Lauda (Australian Formula 1 driver who won the championship in 1975, 1977, & 1984)
George Miller (Australian filmmaker)

Christopher Hemsworth is an Australian actor who is most well known for playing Thor in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Apart from his work in Marvel movies, he has starred in Star Trek (2009), A Perfect Getaway (2009), Snow White and the Huntsman (2012), The Cabin in the Woods (2012), Red Dawn (2012), Rush (2013), Blackhat (2015), Men in Black (2019), and Extraction (2020). Most recently, he was the star in the National Geographic docuseries Limitless which focuses on the natural physical declines that come with aging and what can be done to preserve health. [ Wikipedia ]

Facebook: Chris Hemsworth

Instagram: @chrishemsworth

Twitter: @chrishemsworth

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