podcast Peter Attia 2024-09-23 topics

#318 ‒ Cycling phenom and Tour de France champion Tadej Pogačar reveals his training strategies, on-bike nutrition, and future aspirations

Audio

Show notes

Tadej Pogačar is a three-time Tour de France champion and one of the most dominant cyclists of his generation. In this episode, he shares insights into his 2020 Tour de France victory, his historic 2024 season winning both the Giro d’Italia and Tour de France, and the struggles he faced in 2022 and 2023. He also dives into his training regimen, nutrition, and the key metrics he tracks, like power, VAM, and heart rate variability. Tadej offers a glimpse into his goals for the future and what it takes to stay at the top of the sport.

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We discuss:

2020 Tour de France win [4:30];
Learning from previous mistakes [8:45];
Training: simulating steep climbs and other challenging race conditions [10:30];
Tadej’s historic 2024 season and what contributed to his success [12:30];
Nutrition for optimal performance: offseason diet and carbohydrate intake during intense training sessions [15:30];
Training metrics: heart rate, power output, VAM, and HRV, and his approach to zone 2 training [18:15];
Epic climbs in the Tour de France, mindset after challenging stages, and rebuilding confidence after the 2023 Tour [25:45];
Racing dynamics, media criticism, and Tadej’s reflections on racing records [32:15];
Training in the off-season [39:00]; and
More.

Show Notes

Notes from intro :
Tadej Pogačar is a professional cyclist and three time winner of the Tour de France (2020, 2021, and 2024)
For those of you who may not know his story, Tadej who is just 26-years-old has already been compared to the most legendary all-around cyclist of all time, Eddy Merckx He’s generally referred to as the second coming of Merckx, whose nickname was “the cannibal” (from the manner in which he devoured the competition)
Tadej was a very successful junior rider, winning some of the most prominent races prior to his breakthrough year in 2019 when he signed on with the UAE team He won the Tour of California that year and won 3 stages of the Vuelta a España , one of the 3 grand tours on route to an overall 3rd place finish as well as the young rider title
In 2020 he was the unexpected winner of the Tour de France This is something that we will discuss in detail
Since that time, Tadej has basically rewritten the record books He’s done things that people have generally thought impossible in the modern era of cycling, largely because of the specialization of the sport Typically, cyclist will focus on 1 type of race
Tadej has demonstrated an appetite to conquer everything he does That means he’s competing not just in grand tours and shorter stage races, but also some of the most grueling 1-day races of all time There are 5 such races and he has already won 3 of them We discuss his aspirations around the others
2024 was a momentous year ‒ he first one the Giro d’Italia and the Tour de France A double feat that has not been accomplished for nearly 30 years He set a record winning 12 stages across both of these races
He’s currently the #1 ranked cyclist in the world A record that he’s held for about 170 weeks and counting
In a week, he’s going to attempt to do something that many people thought would never be possible in the modern era of cycling: complete something known as “the triple crown” Winning the Giro, the Tour, and the World Championship Road Race
Peter has wanted to interview Tadej for some time The opportunity of him racing at the GP in Montreal, just 2 weeks out from the World Championship was remarkable and fortuitous (Peter was very grateful to have his time)
In this conversation we talk about His remarkable 2020 season, where he took the world by storm and won the Tour de France in one of the most dramatic finishes that race has ever seen The highs and lows of his career since that time How he trains How nutrition has evolved on the bike, and why that allows cyclists today to do things that were previously thought impossible
This is a bit of an interesting podcast if you are not a cyclist because some of the things he talks about are difficult to wrap your mind around Hopefully Peter’s reaction to those things (for example, his power numbers) will give you a sense of the fact that Tadej is one of most fit human beings on the planet at this moment
He’s generally referred to as the second coming of Merckx, whose nickname was “the cannibal” (from the manner in which he devoured the competition)
He won the Tour of California that year and won 3 stages of the Vuelta a España , one of the 3 grand tours on route to an overall 3rd place finish as well as the young rider title
This is something that we will discuss in detail
He’s done things that people have generally thought impossible in the modern era of cycling, largely because of the specialization of the sport Typically, cyclist will focus on 1 type of race
Typically, cyclist will focus on 1 type of race
That means he’s competing not just in grand tours and shorter stage races, but also some of the most grueling 1-day races of all time There are 5 such races and he has already won 3 of them We discuss his aspirations around the others
There are 5 such races and he has already won 3 of them
We discuss his aspirations around the others
A double feat that has not been accomplished for nearly 30 years
He set a record winning 12 stages across both of these races
A record that he’s held for about 170 weeks and counting
Winning the Giro, the Tour, and the World Championship Road Race
The opportunity of him racing at the GP in Montreal, just 2 weeks out from the World Championship was remarkable and fortuitous (Peter was very grateful to have his time)
His remarkable 2020 season, where he took the world by storm and won the Tour de France in one of the most dramatic finishes that race has ever seen
The highs and lows of his career since that time
How he trains
How nutrition has evolved on the bike, and why that allows cyclists today to do things that were previously thought impossible
Hopefully Peter’s reaction to those things (for example, his power numbers) will give you a sense of the fact that Tadej is one of most fit human beings on the planet at this moment

2020 Tour de France win [4:30]

Tadej raced yesterday, has a race tomorrow, and we’re 2 weeks out from the World Championships For him to make time for this podcast is amazing
A lot of people listening will know everything about Tadej (like Peter or super fans), but there’s also probably a number of people listening who might not appreciate the magnitude of what he’s accomplished in a very short period of time
Peter learned about Tadej in 2019 as the most promising young cyclist that was coming up
Not many people (Peter included) expected what happened in 2020 at the Tour de France
For him to make time for this podcast is amazing

What were your expectations going into the 2020 Tour de France?

Tadej was not expecting at all to win; it was a COVID year
He had pretty good training, not too many races, so not too much to prove
2019 was the breakthrough year for him
2020 was a long period of doing nothing, just training
He and Fabio went into the Tour as two leaders
In the last week, he was fighting for the podium, for second place (he was really happy about that)
The final time trial turned the table around and won the Tour

“ It was unbelievable. I think still a lot of people don’t believe it happened. ”‒ Tadej Pogačar

At the time of that final time trial, people said, “ We haven’t seen a race like this since LeMond and Laurent Fignon in I think it was ’89 when he had that come behind .”

At what stage in 2020 did you realize you were going to be on the podium?

On the stage Col de Rousset , he was sure he was going to be second This was the queen’s stage and he was just 15 seconds behind Roglic Lopez won that stage on the high mountain
This was the queen’s stage and he was just 15 seconds behind Roglic
Lopez won that stage on the high mountain

Tadej explains, “ I also think Roglic thought that day that he’s going to win, so yeah, you never know. ”

Going into that last time trial , what was your team telling you in the radio at the time checks (or even before the time checks) in terms of your delta per Roglic on a kilometer basis?

Roglic was studying behind him 2 time checks on the flat before the final climb
He didn’t know who was leading that time
On the flat section, he got that time and even how much he was behind
Then when the climb came, there were so many people, he did not hear a word in the radio; he just went

Tadej explains, “ I just went full gas to the top .”

Did you feel anything different that day?

Did it feel better than some of the other stages, or was it simply a matter of he had deteriorated more than you across 20 days?

Because it was the last hard stage
The next day is Mantes-la-Jolie (“you just roll through”) Tadej shares, “ It’s still a hard race, but eh. If everything goes normal your GC stays the same, yeah, it was okay .”
In the final time trial , he just needs to be relaxed; he thought he has earned the white jersey and was going to end up 2nd place (but he ended up winning)
Tadej shares, “ It’s still a hard race, but eh. If everything goes normal your GC stays the same, yeah, it was okay .”

Tadej shares, “It was a dream, no?”

Peter asks, “ You didn’t feel the pressure? ”

Tadej didn’t feel nothing; he was really chilled out
He knew the park course really well because he did recon before with Allan Pieper and Mikkel Bjerg

Tadej explains, “ Everybody was happy around and there was no tension, no stress, nothing, and we just rolled with it and then it was one of the best days I ever had .”

Do you remember what your average power was over that time trial?

On the flat, he had a power meter; but on the climb, he had nothing because he wanted to have a 6.8 kilogram bike (as light as possible by regulations)
On the flat, he thinks he went 380-390 (nothing crazy)

What was your weight by that point in the Tour? Were you 60 kilos?

Tadej thinks he was 66 even [145.5 lbs.]

Peter asks, “ What did you weigh this year? ”

He came to the Tour with 64.5 and then 65, then 65.5, and was jumping around 65 throughout the tour [142-144 lbs.]

Learning from previous mistakes [8:45]

More recently in the Tour de France

Peter comments that ‘21 was another amazing year
In ‘22 and ‘23 Tadej had a great race, but it goes wrong in a couple stages

In ‘22 stage 16 was a struggle [ week 2 ]

Yeah, Col du Granon, Laurent, Telegraphe, Galibier, down Briancon, almost to Briancon [ week 2 ]
Visma attaching was constant
Tadej’s mistake was that he shouldn’t have followed Roglic immediately there on Telegraphe It was Tiesj Benoot and then Laporte with him on the downhill, and they just flew down and when we started the Galibier they just go one by one Tadej had to respond to 8 or 9 attacks
Peter thinks he looked very strong
Tadej was, but if you do 8 or 9 sprints, it takes too much
Then he tries to drop everybody from the wheel on Galibier Which was stupid because he knew that Wout van Aert was also in the front and is checkmate anyway
It was Tiesj Benoot and then Laporte with him on the downhill, and they just flew down and when we started the Galibier they just go one by one
Tadej had to respond to 8 or 9 attacks
Which was stupid because he knew that Wout van Aert was also in the front and is checkmate anyway

From a nutritional standpoint, did you feel depleted?

Did you feel like you didn’t have enough? Were you short a bottle on that stage or something?

Tadej thinks he ate enough
But you cannot eat enough when you do so much power, so much attacking
He thinks he had a good nutrition plan, but if you do too much with our body, you cannot replace that

Training: simulating steep climbs and other challenging race conditions [10:30]

When you’re training, do you try to simulate that extent of attacking and recovering?

Since Tadej was junior, even before he knew what it’s going to be per course, he finds around his home a similar type [of course] and just does repetitions of one climb He still strings this way
For example, in Montreal tomorrow is around a 4-5 minute climb and 2 short ones
He still strings this way

He just tries to do as many possible repetitions in training as well as trying to simulate the race

What kind of climb do you like the most? What kind of climb do you like the least in terms of grade and duration?

It depends on the shape
He really like 20 minute climbs, quite steep

10-12% steep?

Yeah
And also 7-8% because they go really fast
It’s already a lot of drafting
When it’s more than 9%, there’s not much draft, so you can do what you want (which Tadej thinks is pretty cool)

Do you have many climbs near you that replicate where you can do 20 minutes at 8%, 9%, 10%?

No, not really
He does 5-10 minutes at 9%, 10%
In Slovenia, around 10 minutes with steep ones A 20 minute climb is quite rare
A 20 minute climb is quite rare

How much does the heat factor into it, and how much are you able to replicate that in training?

Heat training has become a thing now in cycling, especially in the last 2-3 years
We try to overheat the body in a training session or at home on a trainer

Tadej explains, “ It is a big factor, especially for me. I felt always that I struggle when it’s super hot, but yeah, if you try to train this, you can be better. ”

Tadej’s historic 2024 season and what contributed to his success [12:30]

Peter thinks 2024 has been a remarkable year for Tadej Winning both the Giro d’Italia and Tour so comfortably
Winning both the Giro d’Italia and Tour so comfortably

Figure 1. Tadej Pogacar crossing the finish line to win the final stage of the ‘24 Tour de France . Image credit: Tim de Waele/Getty Images

People said, “ Well, Jonas crashed yearly in the season ,” but Jonas’s times were pretty remarkable
Peter thinks it seemed to be just as much a function of Tadej riding even better this year than Jonas come in injured

Do you feel that is the case?

Jonas had a beginning to this year
Tadej doesn’t know how exactly his recovery went because they kept it quite quiet Once got on the bike, he could start immediately training quite normal now for sure, at first a little by little
It had an effect on the week 3 stage of the race It affects that preparation You don’t have the capacity to go 3 weeks You have the power, 5-10 minutes of best power output You can do 20 minutes one day, but then maybe your body is not used to going another day
Once got on the bike, he could start immediately training quite normal now for sure, at first a little by little
It affects that preparation
You don’t have the capacity to go 3 weeks
You have the power, 5-10 minutes of best power output
You can do 20 minutes one day, but then maybe your body is not used to going another day

Tadej thinks that was the case with Jonas this year: he had a great power, he got great numbers, but then maybe he lacked this 3 week extent to perform

Peter points out, “ I feel like every cycling fan just feels that we have this incredible treat where we have both of you as these remarkable cyclists. You’re both so young, we’re going to have many more years of you guys racing each other. ”

Do you feel you’re going to continue to race the Tour for many, many more years?

The Tour de France is the biggest race of cycling, so yeah, to keep being on the top you need to do the Tour de France

“ I think battling between me and Jonas pushing each other and always the Tour is the test who is better now ”‒ Tadej Pogačar

Tadej will keep riding the Tour until he doesn’t enjoy the stress anymore

Peter points out, “ Something seemed different in you this year. You seemed stronger. ”

What changed in your training between ‘23 and ‘24?

He didn’t change only training on the bike
He also implemented core training more and more stuff outside the bike
As well, he got more into the details of nutrition He’s getting older, so he’s not so obsessed anymore with just going cake on cake or just eating shit
He’s getting older, so he’s not so obsessed anymore with just going cake on cake or just eating shit

Peter asks, “ Wait, does that mean that 5 years ago, you weren’t paying much attention to your nutrition and you were eating as much as you wanted? ”

Yeah

Nutrition for optimal performance: offseason diet and carbohydrate intake during intense training sessions [15:30]

Do you need to watch your weight in the off-season now?

Tadej’s whole year looks more or less the same
He never restricts too much He never says he cannot eat cake or chocolate because if you restrict too much, then one time you’ll break and go crazy
He never says he cannot eat cake or chocolate because if you restrict too much, then one time you’ll break and go crazy

That’s not a good relationship with food ‒ you need to have a balance also with the bad food

Then in the off-season, he doesn’t have the craving
He is able to go on vacation and have nice quality food and not crazy amounts so he doesn’t gain so much weight

What’s the heaviest you’ll be in the off-season?

69 maybe 70 [kg, or 152-154 lbs] when waking up after a party or a big dinner when you just eat a lot A lot of times that’s just water weight
A lot of times that’s just water weight

Around 69 kg would be the maximum

Do you have a sense of how many grams of carbohydrate you consume in an hour when you’re training?

In his drink, he has either 30 or 60 grams per bottle (not a strong dilution)
Tadej likes 30 grams of carbs because then he can eat more
But when it’s a hard stage, it’s better to have 60 grams in a bottle and then you can eat less

For a hard stage, you need to get around 120 grams per hour; for easier stages, 60-90 is enough

Was that easy for you to get to, or did you have to train your gut to be able to eat that much?

5 years ago, 120 grams per hour was impossible, but with good food/nutrition

What do you like to eat and drink?

His sponsor ( Enervit ) with nutritionists designed really good gels and drinks that are easy on the gut
With this he doesn’t have any stomach problems

Tadej shares, “ 5 years ago I would always go shit my pants after the stage races or long races, and now even eating 120 grams, no stomach problems. ”

Do you think that’s more because you’ve gotten used to it, or do you think it’s more because your nutritionist has figured out a recipe that works for you?

There needs to be a good ratio between glucose, fructose, and all the other stuff in gels
It needs to be good quality so you get used to it

Training metrics: heart rate, power output, VAM, and HRV, and his approach to zone 2 training [18:15]

When you’re preparing for the Tour, how do you define your energy systems?

Do you define them more by heart rate, by power, by how you feel?

Tadej has been training with heart rate monitors since he was 10-years-old
He knows how his heart rate responds when he’s tired or when he’s good

He could go by heart rate only, but it’s always good to compare heart rate to power

However, power meters are not so reliable these days

He uses a Shimano power meter
You always need to be careful with the temperature outside, the calibration, everything
In Tadej’s experience, it can be off sometimes

The best is to train on your home roads where you can also look the speed, the VAM , how fast you’re moving

What kind of VAM are you able to reach when you’re training?

7.5%
If you go all out, it’s around 1,700-1,800 of VAM for 15 minutes It depends on the gradient
It depends on the gradient

Peter reacts and explains, “ That’s just incredible. I know that people listening might not appreciate that. I’m not going to take time to explain what VAM is. If they know what it is, they understand how crazy that is. If they don’t, they can look it up. I’m happy when I hit a thousand by the way, just for comparison. ”

Tadej is using these other metrics: speed, heart rate, and power

“ You see all these three things, the speed, heart rate, and power. Then you see how you feel and in which zone are you really in. ”‒ Tadej Pogačar

How much time are you spending in Zone 2 (low intensity aerobic training)?

Tadej loves riding in Zone 2
Around where he lives in Monaco, it’s really hard to get into Zone 2 because there’s a lot of climbing and then all the downhills
He tries to hit really high Zone 2 on the climbs for 20-40 minutes and then recover on the downhill
When he goes home to Slovenia or somewhere else in Spain when he’s training in Calpe or somewhere it’s more flat, he likes to stay in zone 2 for 5 hours
He would love to do just Zone 2 and going nonstop

What is your heart rate in Zone 2, approximately?

When he’s fatigued, it’s 140, 145
When he’s more fresh, it’s 150-155

How many watts are you putting out at that heart rate?

320-340

Peter explains, “ 320-340 watts for 5 hours, keeping lactate below 2, keeping heart rate at 140, is really remarkable .”

Cycling in Monaco you cannot stay in Zone 2

There are climbs, and you recover after
It’s too much up and down
If you’re doing a 5-hour ride, your Zone 2 after 5 hours may not be your Zone 2 anymore

Tadej explains, “ You always need to know at what time this Zone 2 will not be your Zone 2 anymore because on the flat, you’ll not recover and five hours of riding of 320 to 340 for me is also next day I’m not riding the bike so when I go on flat for longer, I drop power to 290 to 300. ”

Do you track your heart rate or heart rate variability (HRV) in the morning?

Do those numbers give you any indication of how you’re going to train that day or race?

He started tracking this in 2020, but he did not find it really interesting or helpful
This year he started tracking HRV in the night and he likes to track it, but it can be misleading

Peter notes, “ It’s almost better for somebody else to look at it and tell you after .”

Tadej’s girlfriend doesn’t open it in the morning, she opens it after the race This way, if it’s really low, it doesn’t mess with her mind She doesn’t want to be stressed out and then it would mess with the race
This way, if it’s really low, it doesn’t mess with her mind
She doesn’t want to be stressed out and then it would mess with the race

When you do look at your heart rate variability, how much variation do you have between a high day and a low day of HRV?

On a good day, his HRV would be 120, 130
Maximum days it can be up to 150
On the lower end, it could be 35

Peter asks, “ Is that from drinking alcohol the night before? ”

Yeah
In races (the Tour and Giro), it was quite stead around 80-110 on average, every day Peter finds that amazing
Peter finds that amazing

Do you care about resting heart rate or how much heart rate range you have?

The lowest Tadej has hit since he’s been tracking is 37
His nightly average is 43, 42; but on some days he could wake up with 48, 49
If he’s sick or really fatigued it might even be over 50

In terms of max heart rate

When he was a junior, he could hit 213 in shorter races
Yesterday, he hit 203 (still pretty high)

How often do you guys test VO 2 max?

It’s been a while since he tested

Do you do an FTP test out of season just as a way to track it, like a true 20-minute test?

It’s been a while since he’s done one
This year he did a fatigue test where you repeat 8 minutes of one power, going to a higher and higher power, and then all out
Normally, they do a home trainer test in the camp in December It’s long, from 1 hour to 1 hour 30 [minutes] Depends on how long you want to test, to which zone you want to test For Tadej, it’s normally around 1 hour 20 min 10 steps on the home trainer, and every 5 minutes you take a lactate [reading] from the ear to check for the zones He and his girlfriend test each other
Tadej’s girlfriend is also a professional cyclist
Peter comments, “ If you guys have kids one day, look out. ”
Tadej doesn’t want to put them in cycling
It’s long, from 1 hour to 1 hour 30 [minutes]
Depends on how long you want to test, to which zone you want to test
For Tadej, it’s normally around 1 hour 20 min 10 steps on the home trainer, and every 5 minutes you take a lactate [reading] from the ear to check for the zones He and his girlfriend test each other
10 steps on the home trainer, and every 5 minutes you take a lactate [reading] from the ear to check for the zones
He and his girlfriend test each other

Epic climbs in the Tour de France, mindset after challenging stages, and rebuilding confidence after the 2023 Tour [25:45]

For Peter, 3 of the most epic climbs in the Tour de France would be Ventoux , Alpe d’Huez , Galibier

What would be the most epic climbs, and how do they compare in difficulty?

Assuming you’re equally fresh on all days, same situation

Of those 3, Galibier is the easiest, Alpe d’Huez is second, and Ventoux is the hardest

Figure 2. Gradient of Mont Ventoux . Image credit: PJAMM Cycling

Figure 3. Gradient of Alpe d’Huez . Image credit: PJAMM Cycling

Figure 4. Gradient of Col du Galibier . Image credit: PJAMM Cycling

Ventoux is the hardest because of the nature: the wind, heat
Alpe d’Huez is hard but it’s shorter
Galibier from Briancon’s side is dragging up in the valley and then when you turn right, it’s quite high altitude, but it’s still quite a regular climb From the other side you have Telegraphe and then small downhill and climbing again
From the other side you have Telegraphe and then small downhill and climbing again

They’re all more or less the same; these are almost identical climbs

“ Alpe d’Huez is just mythical. You have way harder climbs than Alpe d’Huez, for sure. ”‒ Tadej Pogačar

What is the hardest climb in the modern tour?

For Tadej, Col de Rousset is the hardest

Figure 5. Gradient of the route for Stage 17 of the 2023 Tour de France . Image credit: PJAMM Cycling

He had a very difficult day there in ‘23, the “Queen’s Stage” ( stage 17 )
Tadej did it twice and the first time he did good, but then he felt really tired after it
Last year he did Loze and then small downhill and to Altiport in this town Courchevel; it was brutal

Peter notices, “ This is something about you, Tadej, that is very interesting. I’ve never seen a cyclist who in defeat is so gracious .”

Peter remembers after that stage, Tadej just thanked his team saying, “ Thank God I had a great team around me today, or I would’ve come off the podium .”

That’s remarkable sportsmanship. How are you able to do that?

It’s not individual sport, it is the team sport
Guys sacrificed everything to be there in the Tour to help one guy to win the Tour
On that day, he could really see how the guys reacted to him when he dropped They helped him, supported him emotionally, physically, whatever
They helped him, supported him emotionally, physically, whatever

Tadej felt like he let them down and he was feeling just devastated

“ I was upset, angry, but I couldn’t change it so I just went with it .”‒ Tadej Pogačar

What did you think about after the ’23 Tour?

It was frustrating
He was anxious, stressed
But he evaluated what went wrong, what were the mistakes, what he could do better
It all went back to the crash from Liege, preparation to the Tour and everything else

Psychologically, did you have to get some confidence back?

He got some confidence back already when he won stage 20
3 days after that, the World Championship was just a small patch on the wound Great racing, but 3rd place didn’t feel enough
Winning Lombardy was big
Great racing, but 3rd place didn’t feel enough

Peter explains, “ There are these 5 huge classic races that normally, the people who win the Tour de France do not win those races and vice versa. This is a totally different sport. It’s sort of like, I don’t know, the person who wins the marathon winning the 10K, even though that’s not even remotely the right comparison, but yes, you’re both on a bike, but it’s different and you’ve now won 3 of the 5 classics. ”

Lombardy is the closest one that a Grand Tour winner can win
The other 4, they’re really unlikely Maybe there’s Bastogne-Liege But also it’s really hard for a Grand Tour contender to win those races
Maybe there’s Bastogne-Liege
But also it’s really hard for a Grand Tour contender to win those races

Other cycling races

Paris-Roubaix and San Remo
Tadej has a feeling that San Remo is going to send him to the grave, trying to win that He’s getting so close, but so far it’s unbelievable
He’s getting so close, but so far it’s unbelievable

Peter asks, “ To be clear, this is a goal. You want to win all five? ”

Yeah, he want to wind firs the World Championships, San Remo, and then see if there is a space for Roubaix

The Vuelta ?

Getting to the podium in the Vuelta in 2019 was a breakthrough for Tadej With 3 stages, white jersey , he wanted to come back and seal the deal with the red jersey Peter thinks he will
With 3 stages, white jersey , he wanted to come back and seal the deal with the red jersey Peter thinks he will
Peter thinks he will

Where do the Olympics rank on your goals?

It’s in Los Angeles in 4 years, and he really hopes for a hard climb like in Tokyo
Olympics is cycling is hard timing, right on the heels of the Tour For other sports, they train for 4 years just for the Olympics, and this is the peak of career In cycling, the peak of your career needs to be the Tour de France every year
It’s not as high a priority a the Worlds
For other sports, they train for 4 years just for the Olympics, and this is the peak of career
In cycling, the peak of your career needs to be the Tour de France every year

Racing dynamics, media criticism, and Tadej’s reflections on racing records [32:15]

Have you seen any of the Netflix specials on the Tour?

Yeah, he watched the first season
He didn’t watch the second season because he was in training camp
Tadej explains, “ For people like us when we are there, it’s not so fun to watch. ”
It’s fun for Peter to watch it with his wife or with friends if they’re not cycling fans They’re not going to watch the Tour de France with him
One of the things people cannot believe is how you guys are able to ride while fans are encroaching the roads
They’re not going to watch the Tour de France with him

What’s the closest call you’ve had with a fan?

The fans are amazing
When Tadej was a kid, he always wanted that feeling to ride through the group of fans like this, and now he enjoys it the most
In Col de Rousset in 2020 he had some close calls with a Slovenian fan
Normally you need to watch the flags, and the flags are really tricky because they are waiting in the middle of the road and sometimes they move the flag differently
When Peter watches this with his wife, she gets mad She’s screaming at the TV for the fans to get out of the way
Tadej thinks they help
Peter would think the opposite If he tries to put himself in a cyclist’s shoes, he feels like he would subconsciously be holding back a little bit for fear of hitting them and falling
Tadej agrees, you sometimes let off the throttle a little bit
But when you see the fans, the adrenaline is so high and the noise is incredible
She’s screaming at the TV for the fans to get out of the way
If he tries to put himself in a cyclist’s shoes, he feels like he would subconsciously be holding back a little bit for fear of hitting them and falling

“ The noise is so loud and you’re just riding and you don’t actually lose any momentum and it’s crazy. It’s hard to describe .”‒ Tadej Pogačar

For Peter, it looks like one of the craziest things he’s ever seen
This year in the Tour, he was very surprised that certain commentators were almost expressing disappointment when Tadej was winning stages after he had already secured the yellow jersey

Does that mean anything to you that people are saying, “ He shouldn’t be winning so much? ”

Tadej doesn’t see so many people saying this
The ones that hate him will say that, but obviously they hold something against him (it’s normal)
The media and the commentators and journalists, they like to say these things just so they have something controversial to say
Tadej doesn’t see so much controversy in this
The other day, he counted how many stages he won: 12 stages in grand tours this year and 7 stages It’s a little more than half (not so bad)
It’s a little more than half (not so bad)

Do you even think about equaling or bettering the mark now of Merckx and Cavendish in Tour stage wins?

Tadej doesn’t want to think so much ahead because you never know when your last winn is
If it’s there, you take it
If you feel good, you go for the stage, you win
Cavendish won 35 stages ‒ it’s an incredible achievement

Have you met Eddy Merckx?

Tadej has met him a few times They met for dinner; it was nice
One of Peter’s favorite books about cycling is the story of his life and career; it’s called Half Man, Half Bike
Peter has read that Mercks has considered Tadej the second coming of him
Tadej doesn’t know how to respond to that
He was one of the greatest It was incredible how he won the races
Tadej never saw any of his racing, but when you read his Palmarès , it’s just unbelievable It’s something you cannot imagine to achieve in this era
They met for dinner; it was nice
It was incredible how he won the races
It’s something you cannot imagine to achieve in this era

Do you think that the one-hour record is something you would even entertain in terms of making the effort forward and training for it, setting aside time?

Tadej was until Ganna did it and then Bigham ; now, not so much
Ganna was fast, incredible

What is the difference between your power when you are climbing, so your femurs are not kinked down, versus when you’re in a time trial position?

How many watts do you lose being in a time trial position for the same period of time?

Tadej doesn’t know
He’s still trying to figure this one out
On the time trial, he has some good days and some bad days He’s not as consistent as on the road bike
But when it matters, he can push more or less the same numbers on the TT bike as on the road bike
It’s coming all along now with biomechanics, wind tunnel testings, and so many trainings, so many intervals doing that you’re trying to figure out the best position to be possible to do this power
He’s not as consistent as on the road bike

Training in the off-season [39:00]

You mentioned that you did some more strength work in the off-season coming into ’24 as part of the reason why you seemed even stronger than before

Were you doing any strength training for your legs?

Were you doing any weights?

Yeah, a little bit weights
He does strength training throughout the season, but with less weights Still legs, core, glutes, hips
Still legs, core, glutes, hips

When you were growing up, did you run or swim or do any other endurance sports?

When he was younger in Ljubljana , in the winter his team would run up the mountain 3-4 times per week
After school, they had a training meeting and would go up and down a mountain that was close by, 2-3 times
They swam for a few years, 1 time per week for a hour or something

He tried different sports in the winter ‒ cross-country skiing was his favorite

In the last 2 years, he tries to put running into the off-season But it didn’t work out this year
But it didn’t work out this year

In your off-season, what is the most number of days you’ll go without being on a bike at all (no stationary bike, no outdoors)?

A stationary bike is a no-go for him, especially in the off season (he doesn’t do it)
There is a 6-day team camp in the UAE For example, last year, they went running in Abu Dhabi 2 times, played paddle something, and went off on vacation
On vacation, you get bored and go for a run, paddle, or go swimming
For example, last year, they went running in Abu Dhabi 2 times, played paddle something, and went off on vacation

Tadej explains, “ I cannot say that I do 2 weeks without a bike or without any training at all because I really enjoy doing other stuff and other sports. ”

Maybe 3 days of doing nothing, then do something for 1 day, and then another 3 days of doing nothing

By mid-November he’s always on the road bike again

How old were you when you knew you wanted to be a professional cyclist?

He was a junior when he thought he had a chance to be a professional in the World Tour Team, 16, 17-years-old
Second year, juniors he realized he could definitely be in the World Tour
2 years after, he had signed with the UAE team pre-contract for 2019 (under age 23)

In closing, Peter adds, “ Everybody’s excited to see you at the Worlds in a couple of weeks. And again, not to put pressure on you, but just so people understand the significance of that, to be able to win two Grand Tours in a year is really unprecedented. ”

If there’s a chance to add a world title to that, it’s kind of unbelievable
At the other end of that, should it not happen this year given that you’re not yet 26, most people would take the bet that you’re going to have another shot at that

Tadej Pogačar (nickname Pogi) is a professional cyclist from Slovenia who currently rides for UCI WorldTeam UAE Team Emirates. In 2019, at age 20, he became the youngest cyclist to win a UCI World Tour race at the Tour of California. He is a three-time winner of the Tour de France (‘24, ‘21, ‘20); in ‘24 he won six stages including the last three. He placed second in the tour in ‘22 and ‘23. He won Il Lombardia three times (‘23, ‘22, ‘21). He his a two-time winner of several races: Liège–Bastogne–Liège (‘24, ‘21), Tirreno–Adriatico (‘22, ‘21), UAE Tour (‘22, ‘21), Grand Prix Cycliste de Montréal (‘24, ‘22), and Strade Bianche (‘24, ‘22). He won the Paris-Nice stage race in ‘23. He won six stages of the Giro d’Italia in ‘24 and finished as the overall winner. In ‘24 he became the first person to win both the Giro d’Italia and Tour de France in the same year since 1998. [ PCS , Wikipedia ]

X: @TamauPogi
Facebook: Tadej Pogačar
Instagram: @tadejpogacar
Website: tadejpogacar.com

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